I read all the negative comments in multiple threads about bavtoys but being one not to pass judgment I decided to place an order with them anyway. Ouri was quick to respond and accept the order, delivery for me was critical and when I learned my delivery requirements despite their best efforts could not be meet I requested that my order be canceled and opened a dispute with paypal immediately. I did so based on the lack of communications I experienced in trying to get a better understanding of when I would receive my order. I’m not going to complain about the events leading up to this point, miscommunication or misunderstanding I’ll give it the benefit of doubt. However when I requested a refund, what I got back from Bavtoys is pure BS as clearly demonstrated by the email exchange with them and paypal. They are not trustworthy and I would suggest that they only willing to serve customers up to a point.Not only that but when I posted this in the Vendors Feedback section on Bimmerforums It was disputed will false information and locked before I could respond. Clearly there are relationships that Bavtoys maintains for just this purpose along with multiple user identities to further discredit any negative comments against them.Ive since placed and order with Umitza and have been given constant and accurate updates along with the highest level of service imaginable.IMO Bavtoys chose to not only mislead and provide conflicting information but they flat out lied about what they could and could not do regarding a refund.Email from Bavtoys quoting T&C’s from paypal trying to say they can’t refund when it’s obvious they can.—– Original Message —– From: Paypal Bavtoys Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2018 4:03 PM Subject: Fwd: New Item Not Received Dispute: CaseThis is taken from paypal terms and conditions:When a dispute, claim, or chargeback is open, the funds will be held in the seller’s account and will not be available for use. The funds cannot be withdrawn and will be considered “disputed” until the dispute, claim, or chargeback is resolved. This ensures that the funds are available if a refund is needed.The seller can use these funds to issue a refund anytime during the dispute by using the Refund link in the Transaction Details page.Once the dispute, claim, or chargeback is resolved, the remaining funds will be released.Email response from paypal clearly stating the same with quote from Bavtoys in my request to paypal for clarification! I also spoke directly with a paypal rep who told me the same that all that was needed was for bavtoys to click on a button to refund the money. Bavtoys then try to convince me to close the dispute/claim so they could refund the money. Once a case is closed with paypal it cannot be reopened and I would have had no way to get a refund.Thank you for contacting PayPal Customer Support. My name is d**k and I am happy to assist you with your claim. Your seller can select the refund button anytime and it will release the funds to you. If your seller does not refund you within 10 calendar days, PayPal will force the refund on October 29th. Please have your seller call PayPal and we will gladly assist them in refunding you immediately. Thanks. Sincerely, d**k PayPal Consumer Support PayPal, an eBay CompanyAnd here is my Original Message to payaplForm Message>message: ‘I have filed a dispute, elevated to claim # above. The seller Bavtoys, has confirmed cancellation of my order for an item that were never delivered and is now claiming the funds have been “frozen” by paypal and they cannot refund the money until paypal completes the process. Following is a quote from the bavtoys the seller. > “since you filed a paypal dispute we can no longer cancel nor issue any refunds while paypal investigates, their process can take from 30 to 45 days and they will make their determination at that point.waiting for us to process the refund would have taken 2-3 days instead, at this point its not in our hands since we no longer have access to the funds.thank you” >The seller has further indicated that they are willing to refund the funds immediately if I close the dispute and “free the funds”. >Please advise does bavtoys, the seller have the ability to make a refund immediately and close the case without any further action on my part? >Is what they are claiming accurate in any way.’Now here comes the response from Habbie a.k.a. Ouri or whatever name he goes by from Bavtoys in red that I was unable to respond to on Bimmerforums before the thread was locked. Now that Im free to comment they are identified with an >it appears some people are able to pass judgment based on a post that includes 1 email and an incomplete story at best.1. customer places order on Sat 10/8>True2. customer is advised on Mon 10/10 that the item is out of stock until 10/25 via phone call, customer states he is under a time crunch and would like to expedite the order if possible. rep states that he may be able to get a set from another retailer in order to get it shipped and delivered on the week of 10/25>I was advised on 10/8 that needed parts would be arriving in 2-3 days delivered to Bavtoys or by the middle of the week = 10/14 then it would take another day to turn around and they would ship out to me, arriving in my hands by 10/25 which was acceptable3. a set is located and ordered at full retail cost to us and the customer is notified, he offers to pay the difference, he is advised that no additional costs or payments are required or necessary.>This is where the smoke an mirrors begins, after repeated calls, email with no response I finally speak with Ouri on Sat 10/15 and he indicates that hes trying to locate a set locally and will advise if he is successful I ask him to call me with an update and dont hear from him again until Monday 10/16 by email after leaving several messages and emails with a request for an update4. 10/16 customer is advised by email that the lights are located and ready to ship and we are still on schedule for delivery on the week of 10/25>On Monday 10/16 I get an email which I dont collect until Tuesday 10/18, advising hes located a set of lights and Bavtoys could have them in house at Bavtoys in 3-4 days. Adding another day for turnaround and 4 5 days for shipping and Im now looking not at 10/25 delivery to my door but best case 10/28. Note they havent ordered them yet and. Bavtoys apparently could not pick up the phone and call me despite the numerous calls I placed to them throughout the day on Monday and Tuesday5. 10/18 customer replies that the time frame is no longer viable for him. customer files a paypal chargeback for non receipt. customer is advised to cancel the paypal claim and refund will be provided on the spot or follow up with paypa procedurel, he is advised that the refund will not be processed by paypal until 10/29 at the earliest. customer states that the paypal timeframe and process is unacceptable and he is advised again to close the case with paypal and a refund will be processed within the hour, he says he has to pick up his son and requests we discuss the matter some more the next day.>I finally speak with Ouri late on Tuesday afternoon 10/18, keep in mind that Ive been calling and leaving messages for two days and this is the first time Ive spoken with him. He gives me the same information but will not tell me where they will ship from only that it could be either Ca or FL. I tell him this isnt going to work and Ill need to get them elsewhere. Given that the parts are no where in site, there is no way Ill have the lights delivered to me until the 1st of Nov, the lack of response to my calls, and the misdirection in quoting delivery Im finally convinced that all the negative comments Ive read about Bavtoys are true and file a dispute with paypal to protect the possibility of losing $700+ . This is when Bavtoys tells me they cannot issue a refund at which point I elevate it from dispute to a claim. All the while Paypal is assuring me that Bavtoys can issue a refund at any time.6. the following day he sends an email: Refund funds immediately or I will file suite in the state of NH for “triple damages”. Filing will take place tomorrow if refund has not been made by 12pm PDT. No further communication is necessary,the customer chose to file a chargeback prior to requesting a refund, he was advised multiple times that once a claim is started we follow the paypal procedure, he is advised once more to close the claim and a refund will be issued immediately otherwise we’ll follow the paypal procedure. that offer still stands if he is unhappy with the paypal timeframe he initiated by filing a claim. at no point and time was his refund “held , denied or otherwise”, paypal has placed the funds on hold pending their investigation which the customer initiated before even asking for a refund.>Not knowing how well I might be protected I did send the above email and was prepared to file suit in NH. I then decided to wait and see if paypal would close the case for me and refund me the amount due on 10/29. This did occur and now that I have gotten my refund I can honestly say that dealing with Bavtoys was a complete disaster not only did they string me along with misinformation on delivery by then they held onto $700 of mine for an additional 10 days until paypal forced the refund on my behalf. In addition they tried to convince me to close the case with paypal knowing perfectly well that once I did Id have no way to go after them for a refund for me.If youre trusting like I was youll make the mistake of doing business with this scumbag despite all the documented information out there that indicates you shouldnt, and you may get lucky and get what you ordered. But why would you want to do business with a company whose owner is known to treat customers like crap and lie while doing so. Go to Umnitza instead and you wont regret itJust to be completely open, following are the remaining posts on Bimmerforums trying to discredit me with the thread locked before I could respond in detail.I have had nothing but good dealings with bavtoys, and from the response above it looks like they are not at fault for this situation.how are they holding your refund exactly?????? jesus.. having to deal with idiot customers on regular bases is enough to scare me from going intothe parts business. i really feel for some vendors having to put up with such stupidity on a daily base. normal people would ask for a refund then give the vendor 2-4 days to process it only an idiot would file a chargeback then complain about the process taking too long. they offered you an immediate refund if you closed the claim with paypal, if they fail to do so you always have recourse with the CC company. WTF. so now being a forum sponsor and in business for 11 years qualifies as a “fly by night”… Quote: Originally Posted by liilpa09I have had nothing but good dealings with bavtoys, and from the response above it looks like they are not at fault for this situation. +1 nothing but many many times over. Quote: Originally Posted by habbienot exactly true… in March 2010 i chose to cut all ties with umnitza after a relationship that lasted a few year. we chose to severe all ties for a number of reasons, one being 95% + shipments getting botched on a daily base where they would ship 2 left headlights instead of a set, multiple orders to the same customer even though they only placed one order, incomplete orders, wrong item shipped, shipping damage and poor quality among other issues, as you can imagine shipping costs were astronomical as well as customer complaints.add the fact that the feds launched a criminal investigation for postal fraud of some 11,000 shipments totaling ~$400 to 500k over a period of 3 to 4 years against umnitza, doing business with them was no longer viable nor an option.from that point on umnitza has chosen to bad mouth our product and services offering customers discounts and coaching them on posting threads such as this on various online forums… old news bro its been circulating on the net for a long time their shady business practices and thievery has been hashed out to death online.half truths and flat out liesAfter reading the responses from BAVAUTO it’s more apparent than ever that OUI is well practiced in the art lying.talk about a juvenile if not senile response. you got caught in a lie just let it go instead of making a bigger a*s out of yourself and take their offer. after all you do want your refund badly dont you?? Quote: Originally Posted by habbieDan, everything i posted is 1000% accurate and true to the last detail regarding this transaction, you and i both know it. regardless of accusations and stories and in the interest of putting this to pasture go ahead and close the dispute and we will issue a refund within the hour just like i told you over the phone several times otherwise feel free to follow through with paypal. sounds like a fair proposal unless one party has too much time on their hands and would rather get involved in a pissing match then get closure.as far as umnitza goes its pretty low and classless for a company with his track record to coach customers to lie publicly about others when they stand accused of a federal postage theft scam among many other scams. then again knowing umnitza it makes perfect sense.>>>>>Finally Im certain that these last few post where made by Habbie / Ouri alternate users identities on bimmerforums or those that are gaining otherwise from him. They just chose to ignore the fact that once I closed the case with paypal Id be helpless to collect a refund and then go on to slam Umnitza for no reason.I can say from direct comparison in dealing with both: Umnitza = a reputable company with real support, one who knows how to treat a customer with honesty and provides real-time communications.Baytoys = A fly by night operation, No address, No sales operations, Not even a real company, Nothing to offer other than a load of BS, Just a scum bag with a fancy web site.
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